Snapjaw

Arsenal during briefing should be a 2iC duty

55 posts in this topic

When the squad lead is unavailable, I am to assume the 2iC is to take command over the squad. 
During briefing this naturally takes place, and thus mostly concerns the arsenal.
As returning players usually have their shit together, most of any leading to be made would be in regards to new players.

To clarify, I mean the following, when needed:

  • If somebody asks for the uniform, actually type it out 
  • If somebody forgot which role they chose, verify it
  • Recommending a good weapon
  • Recommending a good basic kit
  • Mentioning secondary things like radio, gps and no-voice

Instead of the more frequent:

  • "FFS, for the third time; Murky on" (when the output is categorized under bracket VSM )
  • "Who's the ammo bitch?"
  • "Wow your shit is ugly"
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Snapjaw said:
  • If somebody forgot which role they chose, verify it

This is difficult, you are best of remembering it yourself. 50% of the time the order on shacktak is not the same order as in the slotting screen. When somebody joins late or disconnects at some point, they can be put at the bottom of te list, eventhough they are the assistant autorifleman. The only roles that are obvious are sl,2ic,medic and ar.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NeilZar said:

This is difficult, you are best of remembering it yourself. 50% of the time the order on shacktak is not the same order as in the slotting screen. When somebody joins late or disconnects at some point, they can be put at the bottom of te list, eventhough they are the assistant autorifleman. The only roles that are obvious are sl,2ic,medic and ar.

As you said, most other roles are so obvious that it only leaves two to remember. Assistant and regular rifleman.
If either role hasn't been filled as the game starts, then regardless how somebody joins then the 2iC would assign them to become the former.

I would put it past someone if they honestly forgot who's who, but from my experience it seems like most aren't even expected to try.
2iC in arsenal is practially poorly echo the uniform choice, anything above that seems to be considered going above and beyond.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Snapjaw said:
  • Recommending a good weapon
  • Recommending a good basic kit

This I feel could be a 2iC job but its good to get options. Like ask the whole squad see what they like and try them out because different people like different things.

 

Just my opinion, I personally feel there isn't much of a problem with arsenal atm. Just people don't pay attention or is late etc etc.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, thesecretgames said:

This I feel could be a 2iC job but its good to get options. Like ask the whole squad see what they like and try them out because different people like different things.

Absolutely, multiple opinions and discussions are great.
My main concern is that there is often no one stepping up at all, which in turn means the new guy gets poor and/or moody responses.
 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Snapjaw said:

Instead of the more frequent:

  • "FFS, for the third time; Murky on" (when the output is categorized under bracket VSM )
  • "Who's the ammo bitch?"
  • "Wow your shit is ugly"

Not trying to sound like a dick, but 2 and 3 are usally jokes

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Natnanny said:

Not trying to sound like a dick, but 2 and 3 are usally jokes

Jokes should be funny, so that rules out number 2, as that just furthers a lack of understand of what the Auto-Assist is supposed to do within a squad. That aside, if someone asks for help, a joke is not the appropriate response, instead try being useful.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Snapjaw said:
  • "Who's the ammo bitch?"

This is also why the AAR slot is so unpopular. It's a joke but not many people like it.

But everybody calls the AAR, ammo bitch so everybody new does also.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Snapjaw said:

 

  • If somebody asks for the uniform, actually type it out 
  • If somebody forgot which role they chose, verify it
  • Recommending a good weapon
  • Recommending a good basic kit
  • Mentioning secondary things like radio, gps and no-voice

As 2IC I always try to do the points 1, 2 and 5 and make sure everyone knows what's going on.

I'm usually AR though and haven't really encountered the negative points you've made besides the obvious ammo bitch jokes

 

Points 3 and 4 though are ones I think is better if it's a group input, as sometimes the 2IC isn't familiar with every gun and role to be able to accurately suggest a gun for them. Also as an AR I really enjoy using the stoner, a gun other AR guys would make fun of, so me suggesting that out of preference rather than it being the best gun for the role is silly.

 

my random 2cents 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

If a 2ic is saying this crap, they're either new themselves, or are simply fed up and have had a bad day. It can happen. I come on to have fun away from my IRL troubles, last thing I want to be doing is pseudo doing my real job as customer service. Granted that gives me an advantage, I know how to smile and remain calm and explain things... and then mute my headset and mutter moody comments. But not everyone has that filter.

NO ONE likes explaining things time and time again. I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain radio frequencies to people on MAIN missions. If you're coming to those and taking valuable slots, I trust you to know what you're doing and to bring the proper gear. There is a huge amount of data on the forum and there are many individuals who are willing to help you out. But if I have to explain how to use an m136 WHILE a BTR is shooting at us, I might be liable to say "DROP THE FUCKIN' LAUNCHER AND LET ME DO IT!" 

I don't mind telling someone the camo if they missed it, I mind people getting on platoons arse 5 seconds into the game about it. I don't mind giving a gun recommendation, I do mind having to tell you that bolt actions are banned. I don't mind explaining ACE medical, I do mind if I have to explain it and you're the medic.

TL;DR. What I'm trying to say is, give us a break too. We don't expect to have to hold a teaching lesson every briefing. If you have a question, ask, but if it's something silly and basic expect them to get a little annoyed. And if you keep barraging them with silly questions, expect them to get moody. Keep in mind we're only human, we have bad days. 

And if you're a new 2ic, forum guides are God. Fuckin' read em before you get told the long range frequencies by an auto assistant.

Edited by Doctadoone
Spelling
6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Doctadoone said:

If a 2ic is saying this crap, they're either new themselves, or are simply fed up and have had a bad day. It can happen. I come on to have fun away from my IRL troubles, last thing I want to be doing is pseudo doing my real job as customer service. Granted that gives me an advantage, I know how to smile and remain calm and explain things... and then mute my headset and mutter moody comments. But not everyone has that filter.

NO ONE likes explaining things time and time again. I've lost count of how many times I've had to explain radio frequencies to people on MAIN missions. If you're coming to those and taking valuable slots, I trust you to know what you're doing and to bring the proper gear. There is a huge amount of data on the forum and there are many individuals who are willing to help you out. But if I have to explain how to use an m136 WHILE a BTR is shooting at us, I might be liable to say "DROP THE FUCKIN' LAUNCHER AND LET ME DO IT!" 

I don't mind telling someone the camo if they missed it, I mind people getting on platoons arse 5 seconds into the game about it. I don't mind giving a gun recommendation, I do mind having to tell you that bolt actions are banned. I don't mind explaining ACE medical, I do mind if I have to explain it and you're the medic.

TL;DR. What I'm trying to say is, give us a break too. We don't expect to have to hold a teaching lesson every briefing. If you have a question, ask, but if it's something silly and basic expect them to get a little annoyed. And if you keep barraging them with silly questions, expect them to get moody. Keep in mind we're only human, we have bad days. 

And if you're a new 2ic, forum guides are God. Fuckin' read em before you get told the long range frequencies by an auto assistant.

I don't actually mind explaining any of these things, because to me all that means is one more person has a good understanding of the rules, weapons and other important bits. Not to mention, that as either SL or 2IC it is your job to take care of your people, sometimes that means sitting down and running through the basics, sometimes you have to do it more than you might like, but as a command role, you need patience and compassion, as well as leadership skills. I say that as someone who actively tries to SL on every mission I attend, as I enjoy all the responsibilities it brings and I don't mind explaining stuff to someone who doesn't know or isn't sure, because it's better to ask ahead of time than have an uncertainty cause problems in the midst of a mission (I've had to shout at people to hand over LAT they couldn't use as well).

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say one thing though, it isn't just the arsenal that should be helped with. The 2iC should make sure the rules are upheld during the briefing aswell. Stuff like, not shooting in spawn, AT ANY TIME! I recently had a confrontation with another squads 2iC where he shot an AI, becuase it is allowed according to him. Now the rules don't state anything about shooting AI, but in general you don't shoot them because the player might return and take control again. Besides that fact, he kept up his view of it being allowed, evnthough he had to shoot a full mag at full auto in spawn during the briefing.

I hope that the SL training will make it that squad leads and 2iC will be more strict in upholding the rules and keeping their squad behaved, both in the field and during the briefing. As I have been noticing an increase in shooting at spawn and general fuckery during missions. Like the lead squad in the convoy popping smoke from the back of their vehicle, forcing the vehicles behind them to slow down to make sure the do no hit eachother or any objects.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Doctadoone said:

TL;DR. What I'm trying to say is, give us a break too. We don't expect to have to hold a teaching lesson every briefing. If you have a question, ask, but if it's something silly and basic expect them to get a little annoyed. And if you keep barraging them with silly questions, expect them to get moody. Keep in mind we're only human, we have bad days. 

I agree with parts of what you're saying, parts I don't:

  • FK is a semi-public server. People are literally given the rank FNG. Many of the people that came here did so because of woodglue, and some haven't even finished the tutorial.
  • There's a huge difference between having nothing to do in the arsenal, and almost getting ran over by a BTR.
  • I do not understand why you would pick a leadership role if you are "simply fed up and have had a bad day".
  • I honestly believe a lot of your "why am I customer support?" problems would be remedied if the 2iC spent more time being useful during the briefing period
  • During missions I don't expect anybody to explain how the sprint button works without getting fed up. This thread solely concerns what people are up to during the briefing period waiting.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, SABER said:

I don't actually mind explaining any of these things, because to me all that means is one more person has a good understanding of the rules, weapons and other important bits. Not to mention, that as either SL or 2IC it is your job to take care of your people, sometimes that means sitting down and running through the basics, sometimes you have to do it more than you might like, but as a command role, you need patience and compassion, as well as leadership skills. I say that as someone who actively tries to SL on every mission I attend, as I enjoy all the responsibilities it brings and I don't mind explaining stuff to someone who doesn't know or isn't sure, because it's better to ask ahead of time than have an uncertainty cause problems in the midst of a mission (I've had to shout at people to hand over LAT they couldn't use as well).

Perhaps it sounded a bit harsh but there is a certain degree of truth to what I said. I don't mind teaching people, I relish it in fact. If Slouchy didn't have his session I'd be holding my own. But we're adults here and I feel there is a limit. I trust that if you come to the pool to swim that you actually know how to swim without drowning. If not, go to swimming lessons. See what I'm getting at?

Im more than willing to lead and guide people into the deep end in missions. But if I have to pull you into the deep and you can't even swim yet then it's just going to be a problem. 

Its the same sort of issue I have with people going "Can I take Raptor? I'm learning and need practice." Practice on your own time. Boot the editor and practice, bring a buddy if you need it. Try not to hold up missions with inexperience. I'm all for giving people experience but there is a time and place. And main missions aren't it.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Snapjaw said:

FK is a semi-public server. People are literally given the rank FNG. Many of the people that came here did so because of woodglue, and some haven't even finished the tutorial.

Yet they immediately attempt to join in on arguably the most advanced mode in Arma. I know we are not trying to be full milsim, but when you hop into a server with 30+ gb of mods without even bothering to do the tutorial, and expect to get every single tidbit of information explained to you, then that is going to piss people off.

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Callistano said:

Yet they immediately attempt to join in on arguably the most advanced mode in Arma. I know we are not trying to be full milsim, but when you hop into a server with 30+ gb of mods without even bothering to do the tutorial, and expect to get every single tidbit of information explained to you, then that is going to piss people off.

This. All this. I came in on my first day with no task force experience and was platoon leading in a side mission the next. Wasn't a small platoon either. I didn't go to training, I didn't ask questions. All I did was read the guides. They're so packed with detail that it's hard to mess up the basics. Even now I've been learning Mortar after one quick session with Edelweiss. When I took that mortar gunner slot I had read the full guide and had practiced with some targets in the virtual arsenal. I knew how to calculate distance and a firing solution without a calculator. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Doctadoone said:

When I took that mortar gunner slot I had read the full guide and had practiced with some targets in the virtual arsenal. I knew how to calculate distance and a firing solution without a calculator. 

And that is the best way of learning something. Just practice with it in the editor. The new training that will be required for the tags will also help, but you can limit the amount of training sessions you need by practising with stuff in the editor.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mulletshock said:

Are we going to need a 2ic tag and training session now?

If you want to be a squad lead during main missions, you get priority if you have the tag, after the tag introduction. Not sure if we are actually implementing the 2iC tag for squad leading, I thought we weren't.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/04/2017 at 02:57, Natnanny said:

Not trying to sound like a dick, but 2 and 3 are usally jokes

Yeah they are, I usually take that slot if Medics taken, and call my self the ammo bitch 9_9

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ammo Bitch it is not. Any monkey can pull the trigger on an MMG. It takes real skill to direct his fire, ensure he's on target and keep that gun firing.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Digby Tatham-Warter said:

Ammo Bitch it is not. Any monkey can pull the trigger on an MMG. It takes real skill to direct his fire, ensure he's on target and keep that gun firing.

Same with Prophet. The Shooter is the secondary, the Spotter is the team lead. They dictate targets and arcs of fire.

If you're an Autorifleman and you're not listening to your Assistant - then you are not doing it right.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Digby Tatham-Warter said:

Ammo Bitch it is not. Any monkey can pull the trigger on an MMG. It takes real skill to direct his fire, ensure he's on target and keep that gun firing.

Sure, but since we allowed scopes on the AR again, the assistant has gone right back to being only good for carrying ammo. That combined with tracer ammo means you will never need an assistant.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

There is a reason it's called a Machine Gun TEAM. Regardless of scope/no scope (I've never really seen why we restricted scopes on MGs as a dickish MG is going to ignore his assistant & engage targets with or without a scope) any good MG will listen to his team and work with the assistant. If you're not doing that you have no place being in an MG role.

2ICs, additionally, should probably take command of the MG/Auto team in the game, as then you can ensure you have proper C&C over the MG and it'll cut down on this one man army approach many people take to having an MG

 

Edited by Digby Tatham-Warter
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Digby Tatham-Warter said:

There is a reason it's called a Machine Gun TEAM. Regardless of scope/no scope (I've never really seen why we restricted scopes on MGs as a dickish MG is going to ignore his assistant & engage targets with or without a scope) any good MG will listen to his team and work with the assistant. If you're not doing that you have no place being in an MG role.

2ICs, additionally, should probably take command of the MG/Auto team in the game, as then you can ensure you have proper C&C over the MG.

I mean, I agree completely, but right now an AR with a 4x scope can easily engage targets up to 800m away with absolutely no assistance. Although we might want to make a different thread for this because we are drifting off topic.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now